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Joss Whedon talks about new Dollhouse pilot, and more

By fred | July 24, 2008

I’ve already mentioned how Joss Whedon was going to shot another pilot episode for his latest series, Dollhouse, which was a sure thing to get fans worried, with awful flashbacks of how Firefly was treated…

But Whedon has been insisting about how this is a completely different situation, how the network didn’t even want him to shot another pilot, but he did decided to do so himself, and maybe he’s just trying to make things look better, maybe he just went there so that the network wouldn’t ask him to and try to burry the original pilot like they did with Firefly, or maybe all is well and everything will work out for the best.

Going back there, here’s what he recently declared : “The fact is, there are echoes of what happened before, so some people are worried. My response to that is, first of all, thanks, I’m glad you care. And also, you can be worried. The show could have all the support in the world from Fox and still not go. There’s no guarantees in this business. The fact is, their support hasn’t wavered, but they did sort of view what I’d done as a little bit different from what I’d sold.

I understand why. I sort of go, hmmm, some of it I think maybe they didn’t get, and some of it, you know what, I didn’t deliver on it in the way that I should have. You have to have the ability to know where the truth lies. It’s not in me and it’s not in you, it’s in between us. That simple ability is lost to so many people and it keeps you alive.

And they never did [ask for a new pilot], because I asked them, “Do you want [one]?” earlier, and they said, “No, no, no, we just want to figure out how to make this work.” I said, “Here’s how you’re going to make this work. I’m going to write you a new one.” They were very grateful. They were like, “Most showrunners don’t do that.”

The first episode I had written was more mythological in structure and didn’t really represent the structure of the show each week. There’s a reason to do that, because it sets everything up, but there’s also a reason to do the other thing.

I’ve just finished the script of the new first episode, and I’ve really used the opportunity to really amp some of the characters and their introductions.”

So, I think it’s possible that rather than having to highly tweak the original pilot to please Fox, or by fear it would go away, Whedon took a preemptive action in deciding to write a brand new pilot episode. But he seems very confident still, hopefully it’ll all work, and the original pilot remains the second episode anyways. Plus, it’s Joss Whedon, you gotta have faith in the man.

While we cross fingers and wait for the show to premiere, sometime in January 2009 (and hopefully there won’t be new twists since then), go ahead and read the complete interview of Joss Whedon by Maureen Ryan below, as usual with him it’s a really cool read :

MR: You seem to be drawn to these women who have a situation or an ability that they may not want. Do you have any ideas about why you keep being drawn to that?

JW: I’ve never had it described to me that way. I look for strength, that’s what interests me. Weakness and strength are basically the things that interest me. What turns me on about a woman is her strength and I think that strength is manifested by burden.

As Captain Hammer [of "Dr. Horrible"] has taught us, when you don’t know what pain is, you can’t handle any. I’m interested in the women who do have something put upon them, so [then] they fight back.

I do think there is an element in our society, in most societies, to which that is true of every single woman. A burden is put on them, the burden of proof in a way, that they are human. Just human. I will always be drawn to those stories.

MR: So many women on television are defined by the men in their lives. You’ve given us a lot of women who are not necessarily defined by men. Echo seems like she is to some degree defined other people but also she’s kind of this free-floating agent.

JW: Well, no, the really fun thing about the show is that she’s absolutely defined by other people, it’s her job to be defined by other people. The idea that she might become defined by herself is potentially lethal to her. It might cause her to be killed if she becomes a person. That to me is absolutely the essence of the show.

MR: How conscious of herself can she become? This is one of my biggest questions about the show.

JW: It’s a two-step, back and forth, back and forth at the beginning, because she’ll get a piece of self-awareness, that’ll be the crux of the episode, and then it’ll be wiped away. Whether or not she still has it… because after every engagement her memory is completely wiped and her personality is removed, and she waits for the next [engagement].

But she starts to collect little bits. Whether or not she gets all those little bits together and starts forming a coherent person or plan to become a person or whether they all get taken away from her is her constant struggle.

MR: I have to ask the Fox question.

JW: Yes, Eliza is a fox.

MR: A stone fox. But I read what you posted on Whedonesque last night and listened to what you said while we were on the set today, but it’s just hard to hear “Joss Whedon shoots new pilot of his show for Fox” and not get the heeby-jeebies [thinking we might have a repeat of what happened to "Firefly"]. Was it all your idea, or were you all in a room and someone said…

JW: No, no. This was my idea. And I felt pretty canny about it. I went online to explain what happened so I didn’t give people a sort of Pollyanna boilerplate that meant I couldn’t tell them what was really going on. That’s not helping anybody. And people are too savvy for that, and they know my history with Fox.

The fact is, there are echoes of what happened before, so some people are worried. My response to that is, first of all, thanks, I’m glad you care. And also, you can be worried. The show could have all the support in the world from Fox and still not go. There’s no guarantees in this business. The fact is, their support hasn’t wavered, but they did sort of view what I’d done as a little bit different from what I’d sold.

I understand why. I sort of go, hmmm, some of it I think maybe they didn’t get, and some of it, you know what, I didn’t deliver on it in the way that I should have. You have to have the ability to know where the truth lies. It’s not in me and it’s not in you, it’s in between us. That simple ability is lost to so many people and it keeps you alive.

I looked at it with a very cold eye, an executive’s eye, and said, “OK, I know what they want that they don’t have.” I don’t want to gut this [first pilot] episode. I’m proud of this episode. Everybody did a really good job. There are scenes I want to tweak and changes I want to make, but if I go to the network and say, “I’m going to give you a new first episode,” they will be excited – they didn’t have to ask for it.

And they never did, because I asked them, “Do you want [a new pilot]?” earlier, and they said, “No, no, no, we just want to figure out how to make this work.” I said, “Here’s how you’re going to make this work. I’m going to write you a new one.” They were very grateful. They were like, “Most showrunners don’t do that.”

I’m just like, I know that I believe in this world. I don’t care how people get there, as long as they get there. And what they wanted was an episode that showed an engagement that ran through its normal course.

MR: So people know what they’re getting.

JW: So people know what they’re getting. The first episode I had written was more mythological in structure and didn’t really represent the structure of the show each week. There’s a reason to do that, because it sets everything up, but there’s also a reason to do the other thing.

I’ve just finished the script of the new first episode, and I’ve really used the opportunity to really amp some of the characters and their introductions. [Cast member] Tahmoh [Penikett's] going to do some Muay Thai. He’s going to be unhappy about the Muay Thai. “Do I hafta? Darn!” [Whedon was joking -- Tahmoh's very into martial arts]

MR: One of the things I most enjoy about your shows is how you put people in these orbits around each other and they keep intersecting and colliding in interesting ways. Is that something that will happen in the “Dollhouse”? Will there be unrequited love, frustration, the full gamut of Joss Whedon relationships?

JW: Oh yes. Actually one, no, two of the most twisted relationships I’ve ever come up with. I’m so excited about the Dollhouse and the ensemble of the show.

One of the things I said to Eliza when we were having lunch, before I had ever suddenly come up with the idea of the show and therefore realized I was making one with her, was, “You need an ensemble. You don’t want to be in every scene. You need a mythology that is bigger than the character, or you’re going to go nuts. You’re going to get exhausted and burn out after two seasons, at best. If you have a big ensemble, it’s a more interesting world, and you can relax. One day a week.”

So when I built the concept, or when it somehow poured out of me, that was one of the main things. And the only thing I regret is that I didn’t come up with the character of Dr. Saunders until after we’d sort of made the deal, because Dr. Saunders is turning into this fascinating character and ["Angel" actress] Amy Acker [who plays Dr. Saunders] doesn’t exactly make it hurt.

What we do in the writers’ room, and love to do more than anything, is, “Oh, this character would really be attracted to this, and this character thinks this about that character, this character’s terrible secret is going to be so fascinating when it comes up against this character’s terrible secret.” And what they all have on each other and how they all deal with each other is going to be different than anything I’ve gotten to do before. I’m very excited.

MR: If I could switch over to some Dr. Horrible questions before we end this, you said one of your goals with this was to make back enough money to pay back your crew. Is that on the horizon? Is that today, in six months?

JW: It’s certainly not today. But it is my hope that it will be within the year, maybe. We will have the DVDs out in a few months. And that’s hopefully going to be a revenue source from the fans. We did the first week free, we got it out to a couple million people.

MR: I was going to ask that – so 2 million is the number?

JW: Over a million watched the first one [Act 1], and then it was descending [with Act 2 and Act 3]. Those were not the final numbers, but it was around two million views [on drhorrible.com], in general.

Apart from my desire to create an Internet event, for the Internet, for the fans, for the community, it was also a way of saying, “Some people will check this out, maybe other people will hear about it, so by the time it is on DVD – and it’s still exclusive on iTunes, kids! – but maybe they’ll be drawn to it.

It would be nice to be able to pay the crew, it would be nice to make a profit, simply because I crave money. No, wait! Don’t print that! Simply because then, [if a profit is made,] we will have proven an economic model. That would actually be an enormous [thing] for the artistic community.

MR: Is something coming up, is there a concrete date of when you might shoot something else?

JW: There’s not a man jack of us who doesn’t want to. I’m not sure what hilarious song follows the last scene.

MR: If you had to choose a way to make stuff, would you make it the “Dr. Horrible” way, or the “Dollhouse” way?

JW: You know, [gesturing to the lavish, two-story "Dollhouse" main set] it doesn’t suck to have a set. I like to live in both world. Sometimes I go to McDonald’s, sometimes I go to [surely the name of a nice restaurant that was obscured on this recording when I got up from the table].

[The last questions concerns the last act of "Dr. Horrible," so don't read on unless you've seen it.]

MR: Did you have to go to the dark place in that last act?

JW: I’ve taken a huge amount of flack for that. People are like, “Joss has run out of ideas. All he can do is be mean.”

MR: But I guess, if you’re constructing an evil supervillain, he has to have a tortured backstory.

JW: I’m just sayin’.

See a preview of Dollhouse right here.

Posted in News
Shows: Dollhouse